CLA Connect Open Forum

Wascomat Oversudsing Issue

  • 1.  Wascomat Oversudsing Issue

    Posted 12-01-2017 15:15
    Hi everyone,
    So I have quite a few of the Wascomat 6th gen Compass Control washers and for those who have these machines, I was wondering how you deal with the oversudsing issue.
    I'm short of saying these machines are junk and I can't wait to replace them since I'm lucky if I pass a day that I don't get a call from a customer complaining that there is a error 053 (which is caused by too much soap) and the door can not unlock. And of course, their excuse is its not their fault since they did not add too much soap. I have Dexters and Maytags and they can really handle any amount of soap.
    I tried increasing the water, but the customer sees a little suds and adds more soap. I tried adding a small rinse and dump after the prewash... but the customer will still find ways to add more soap. I have signs, but it doesn't help.
    Anyone have a good way to solve this problem?

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    Felix S
    Store Owner/ Employee
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  • 2.  RE: Wascomat Oversudsing Issue

    Posted 12-01-2017 16:04
    Felix,

    I have about 40 of those washers. I've rarely encountered oversuds issues. We have open trough drain system, which helps a lot. How old are your washers? Have you observed the drain line to see if the drain flow rate is adequate? I've found that the horizontal section of the drain line in the washer gets clogged up over time that needed to be removed for a full clean out.

    Besides that, I've done two things to educate the customers.
    1. Inform them that the softener will kill the suds at the final rinse. Check if they added their softener correctly.
    2. Added a 10 minutes wash program "Rinse only" that consists of one rinse and one extraction. Customers are guided to pay a dollar to resolve the oversuds issue by themselves. If the issue is so severe that the washer can't start another wash program, you can try pouring some water from the top to release some pressure on the pressure switch. Then proceed to use the rinse program.

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    J H (John)
    Laundromat Owner
    NYC
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  • 3.  RE: Wascomat Oversudsing Issue

    Posted 12-01-2017 16:07
    Felix,

    I have quite a few of the 6th gen Wascomats too and I've never seen an error 053 or an oversudsing issue. What model and size of machine is this error occurring on?

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    Richard Heighington
    Store owner
    Spotless Laundromats
    Prince George, B.C. Canada
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  • 4.  RE: Wascomat Oversudsing Issue

    Posted 12-01-2017 17:34
    Ok, thanks guys. Now I know there is something wrong with my machines.
    I have 3 - 20#, 3- 25#, 1 45#
    I will check the serial # to see what year they were built, but I'm assuming about 10 yrs ago.
    The don't think the issue is with the horizontal portion of the drain since I cleared the 25# and the 45# ones about 2 weeks ago.​
    Is there a sensor or tube that might be clogged?

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    Felix S
    Store Owner/ Employee
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  • 5.  RE: Wascomat Oversudsing Issue

    Posted 12-02-2017 12:21
    Hi everybody,  i am having the same issue with the gen 6, 620, and 630  they are 8 yr.old. And i been having that almost since the beginning, i sople to a technician from electrolux and he say it will reply to me about increasing some more water from the water feeding valve., he never responded, i jusr keep a galon o water mixed with downy handy so when i see too much soap, pour it and ok.

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    Marco Hernandez
    Store Owner/ Employee
    Maha Laundry
    Brooklyn NY
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  • 6.  RE: Wascomat Oversudsing Issue

    Posted 12-02-2017 12:36
    I have three stores with gen 6 equipment and also have never seen that error.   I'm wondering if you don't have drain issues.   I have often had Suds overflowing from my floor lint pit, but that is customer oversoaping, not a machine problem, and the machines still run.   They just dump all the Suds.

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    Charlie Smith
    Charlottesville, VA
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  • 7.  RE: Wascomat Oversudsing Issue

    Posted 12-02-2017 13:37
    Not sure about the oversuds solutions without actually seeing the machine in person.

    As for the "sensor" or "tube"

    Make sure the "banana" under the right side of the tub is in the VERTICAL position, or as much as possible, not a Horizontal position. 

    The machine needs to see a water level, which the oversuds may restrict, but it's the level switch which detects it.

    I like the "paid for" Rinse and Spin" option.
    Customers seem to learn very quickly when it costs them money.


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    DAVID CHAMLEE
    Service Technician since 1986
    and sometimes Laundromat Owner
    CCR
    Santa Barbara, CA
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  • 8.  RE: Wascomat Oversudsing Issue

    Posted 12-04-2017 18:05
      |   view attached
    Ok, over the weekend, about 6 people (that I know of) had this problem. I've attached a picture of 1 instance. The tub looks like there is water but its only suds. The issue is that the door lock, or DLCU thinks that there is water in the machine but its only suds.
    For now, I can't think of anything else to do except to increase the water or add a rinse cycle. Since I'm refunding so much money back to the customers, I might as well take the hit. Does anyone know if there is a drain cycle with a spray rinse? Or how to solve this issue?

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    Felix S
    Store Owner/ Employee
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  • 9.  RE: Wascomat Oversudsing Issue

    Posted 12-04-2017 18:24
    Felix,

    Have you made sure customers aren't using too much detergent? At what point does this happen? Prewash,Wash or rinse cycles? You can also add a spin to these cycles to get rid of the some of those suds. How long does the machine take to drain? Could there be a blockage that doesn't let the water drain completely causing a buildup of suds?

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    Richard Heighington
    Store owner
    Spotless Laundromats
    Prince George, B.C. Canada
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  • 10.  RE: Wascomat Oversudsing Issue

    Posted 12-04-2017 19:05
    If the suds has a bubble-bath consistency, then detergent is entering during the final rinse.

    If you're getting 053 error only on the W645cc, then it probably means that your customers can't see where to put the detergent because the machine is so damn tall, so they're filling the final rinse pocket.

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    CHS Laundry
    Non-Industry
    Columbia SC
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  • 11.  RE: Wascomat Oversudsing Issue

    Posted 12-04-2017 20:48
    As far as i know, it takes lots and lots of detergent for the washer to quit in the middle of a wash. Check the camera to see how much detergent was added. Once the wash reaches to the final rinse, the softener should be able to kill the suds. It seems that the softener didn't come into play. Check if the customer added too much softener that it was drained away at the beginning.

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    J H (John)
    Laundromat Owner
    NYC
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  • 12.  RE: Wascomat Oversudsing Issue

    Posted 12-04-2017 21:10
    Thanks guys for the help.
    This issue is all across my Compass Controls. It can't be the drain since I checked it a few weeks ago. And it can't be the height since its on my 20# also.
    I'll add a spin cycle to the 1st rinse and give it a test trial. I'll report back to see if that helped or not.

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    Felix S
    Store Owner/ Employee
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  • 13.  RE: Wascomat Oversudsing Issue

    Posted 01-13-2018 12:21
    I just wanted to report back with the oversudsing issue with my Wasco compass controls.

    So for those with similar issues, I tried adding a spin cycle after the main wash and it cut down on the phone calls to only a few within the past 2 weeks. Its been about 3 weeks and it seems to be working much better. So now, I have a prewash, wash, drain, spin, rinse, drain, spin, rinse, drain, spin

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    Felix S
    Store Owner/ Employee
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  • 14.  RE: Wascomat Oversudsing Issue

    Posted 01-13-2018 13:36
    So now your cycle is the same as the original Gen 4 and Gen 5 Wascos, and the correctly programmed Alliance washers.
    I have always contended that it was a mistake to Not have a spin cycle after the main wash.
    "But it saves water" Sorry that don't fly with me. You save Maybe 1 quart of water per cycle, assuming you are only talking about sheets, and not towels, which will soak up much more than the contested 1 quart of water per cycle.
    The extract helps remove the soap from the main wash, allowing you to Have only 2 rinses.
    3 rinses may be more water and time, but is Essential in some locations if you wish to retain your Paying Customers.
    Other locations can get away with only 2 rinses.
    Either way the spin after the main wash is in Every washer I program.



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    DAVID CHAMLEE
    Service Technician since 1986
    and sometimes Laundromat Owner
    CCR
    Santa Barbara, CA
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: Wascomat Oversudsing Issue

    Posted 01-13-2018 20:11
    David,

    I agree with your reasoning on the spin after the wash & each rinse.

    Just a heads up: Felix stated one less rinse,drain, & spin than our Wascomat Gen4s.  It would be one less bath, drain & rinse.

    On our Gen4 modify the controls project we the plan is to let the customer choose between 2 baths, 3 baths, 4 baths, & 5 baths.  The only bath that would not have a spin would be the pre-soak.



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    Michael Walsh www.kingkoin.com
    Store Owner/ Employee
    King Koin Laundry, Car n Dog Wash
    Bismarck ND
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  • 16.  RE: Wascomat Oversudsing Issue

    Posted 01-14-2018 11:25
    David,

    I agree that it is a rookie mistake to change or adjust a cycle to achieve utility conservation.  I have NEVER adjusted a cycle with the intent of reducing utility consumption.  In fact, that's always been the furthest thing from my mind - even when I converted my lighting from T8 fluorescent to LED.

    I have always contended that it was a mistake to Not have a spin cycle after the main wash.
    "But it saves water" Sorry that don't fly with me. You save Maybe 1 quart of water per cycle, assuming you are only talking about sheets, and not towels, which will soak up much more than the contested 1 quart of water per cycle.
    The extract helps remove the soap from the main wash, allowing you to Have only 2 rinses.
    DAVID CHAMLEE,  01-13-2018 13:36

    That said, there are some excellent reasons to experiment with the factory cycles.  Those reasons include:

    1.  To expedite the cycle thus saving the customer TIME.
    2.  To expedite the cycle thus allowing a faster TURN OVER of the washer.
    3.  To offer a faster cycle for lightly to moderately soiled loads at a LOWER PRICE.
    4.  To offer a slower (longer) cycle for heavily soiled loads at a HIGHER PRICE.

    For those who wish to experiment with E-cycles (the E stands for Economical, Expeditious, Expandable and Effective); one must have washers that offer the user the ability to buy additional baths when needed.  This ability meets the "Expandable" cycle requirement.

    Next, one would want to reduce total cycle time to about 20 minutes (as indicated by the display).  This can often be accomplished by reducing the cycle to a wash, rinse, drain, extract and done.  This change meets the "Expeditious" cycle requirement.

    While achieving a fast cycle, you also want it to be effective for light to moderate loads.  It's necessary to understand that actual cleaning can take place in both the wash bath and the rinse bath if there is no extract between the two baths.  This is because detergent is carried over in the wet load from the wash bath to the rinse bath.  With the carry over of detergent, the first half of the rinse bath is almost like a wash bath (which I consider a good thing).  Finally, the liquid fabric softener is injected into the second half of the rinse bath to kill the suds just before the washer drains and extracts.  The result is a fast cycle that meets the "Effective" requirement for lightly to moderately soiled loads.

    The new E-cycle allows a customer to pay a base price for the basic wash, rinse, extract and an up-charged price if she wishes to enhance the cycle by adding an additional bath such as an extra wash or an extra rinse.  Thus the customer decides how soiled her load is and how long a cycle she requires and how much she will pay to use the washer.  By using just the base cycle for lightly to moderately soiled loads, she is saving money compared to what she would pay to use an enhanced version of the E-cycle.  Thus the E-cycle meets the "Economical" requirement.

    So, as you can see, David, having no extract following the wash bath has nothing to do with reducing water consumption (in my mind) but it has everything to do with carrying over some detergent into the first half of the rinse bath.  My customers have been happily using my E-cycles for over 7 years now.  They don't waste their TIME or MONEY because they've learned to use the proper amount of detergent, the correct type of fabric softener and the correct E-cycle for each load.  My customers are "washing smart" instead of "washing hard".

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    Larry Adamski
    Muskegon Laundromat
    Spring Lake MI
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  • 17.  RE: Wascomat Oversudsing Issue

    Posted 01-14-2018 12:20
    Larry,

    I normally agree with nearly everything you post, but while you listed some minor plusses, ie shorter time, quicker throughput, etc. How much shorter? 30 seconds??? Eliminating a 30 second spin lowers the price??

    You can disagree, but I feel having a 30 second extract after the main wash not only cuts down on soapy residue at the end of the cycle (cutting down on customer complaints and the need for "customer education"), but I feel it's more sanitary to squeeze the dirty water out of the laundry before a rinse.
    It's a gross thought to think that the same dirty water from the wash is mixed in with the only rinse.
    You run an expensive upscale mat, but that's not upscale at all.

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    Paulie B
    Owner/Operator
    Mr Machine
    New York City, NY
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