Open Forum

Regarding NYC Consumer Address Law

  • 1.  Regarding NYC Consumer Address Law

    Posted 10-06-2018 16:01
      |   view attached

    Dear fellow NYC laundromat owners,

    It has come to my attention that this year, the NYC's Department of Consumer Affairs (DCA) is enforcing the NYC laundry licensing law, passed in 2016, that requires the customer name and address on each receipt.
    https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/dca/downloads/pdf/about/Laundries-LawHandout.pdf

    Here's the paragraph in the law:

    20-297.5 General provisions.
    a. Each licensee shall attach to all handcarts and pushcarts a label or tag that displays, in
    letters not less than two inches in height, such licensee's name, address and license number.
    b. Bills, tickets, cards, advertising or stationery issued or distributed by any licensee shall
    contain such licensee's name, address and license number.
    c. Charges to laundry consumers shall state accurately and clearly the name and address of the
    consumer and computation of the laundry charge
    ...

    To my knowledge, initially, a few months ago, the fine for not having consumer name/address on the receipt was $140. Now it has become $250. I have been in the laundry business for 8 years and have never been contacted to voice my opinion regarding this provision. I am currently working closely with the Chinese American Laundry Association to conduct a consumer survey to present to the DCA for the consideration of removing this law. Currently, according to this law, we, laundromat operators are required to request each customer's full name and address to be be printed or hand-written on each receipt, to avoid the violation tickets. This association organized a protest to successfully removed the Certification of Occupancy / Letter of No Objection requirement for our NYC laundromat owners at the end of last year, for the record.

    Attached please find the survey form to be printed out for your customers to voice their opinions. You may also contact me (John, 9176289193) to receive such form in the mail from the association, free of charge.

    Thank you for your attention and participation in this matter! If you have any question, please feel free to call or email me (jhlaundromat@gmail.com)



    ------------------------------
    John H (John)
    Laundromat Owner
    NYC
    ------------------------------

    Attachment(s)

    pdf
    consumerAddrSurvey.pdf   167K 1 version


  • 2.  RE: Regarding NYC Consumer Address Law

    Posted 10-06-2018 17:16
    Edited by Paulie B 10-06-2018 17:19
    John,

    Sorry to hear this....They have nothing better to do than to create new regulations that nobody....business owners NOR the customers want?
    Don't they realize that most customers, especially women, will refuse to give out their addresses???

    It's one of the reasons I sold my mats in NYC and moved away. The best way to stop these dumb kinds of bureaucratic power plays is to vote the Democrats in NYC out of office....but we all know that this will never happen there.

    I hope you can get this turned around.

    ------------------------------
    Paulie B
    Multiple Mat Owner since 1976
    New York City, NY
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Regarding NYC Consumer Address Law

    Posted 10-06-2018 21:08
    Paul,

    You got out at the perfect timing!

    This year, all the moderate Democrat candidates have been voted out during primary election. The NYC democrat party is now being solely controlled by left wing. I cross my fingers that the Democrats will learn how to run a business, without the moderates communicating with the Republican party.
    The Rikers island is being shut down to be developed for commercial use. All the prisoners there will either be released or transferred to the new jails that are going to built within the residential areas. The new jails will be built like hotels...using tax payers' money. Guess where the money will come from...

    It seems that we will be forced to stay united and become politically active, as part of the daily business activity. If we can't change it, we will become part of it...

    ------------------------------
    John H (John)
    Laundromat Owner
    NYC
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Regarding NYC Consumer Address Law

    Posted 10-06-2018 21:59
    Edited by Paulie B 10-07-2018 12:12
    Yeah, I heard about Riker's closing down and the new neighborhood jails. They're crazy!
    This is a social experiment that will get innocent people killed, robbed, and assaulted, as well as property values plummeting near those new jails:

    https://www.amny.com/news/closing-rikers-island-1.20484597

    I felt for a LONG time that the NYC govt is run by left wing extremists. After Rudy Gullianni, it started to decline, and keeps getting more and more radical.
    They hate the business people. As true Socialists, they see small business people as exploiting the people, and they see us as an endless source of money for them to take.

    I truly hope you can get a good strong coalition together to fight them because the only thing they understand is being kicked out of their ivory towers. They are so out of touch with reality.

    I wish you all the best John.

    VOTE next month! And get everyone you know to vote these extremists out.

    ------------------------------
    Paulie B
    Multiple Mat Owner since 1976
    New York City, NY
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: Regarding NYC Consumer Address Law

    Posted 10-07-2018 00:23
    Good luck, John H, getting that law overturned.  If forced to, I would think most women would give a fake address, that would be one good option in my mind.

    A person can call a plane a rock, or a mountain a daisy, or an ocean a hammer, if they so choose.  Lawyers have a saying: if a given animal looks like a dog and barks like a dog and smells like a dog, then it must surely be a dog.  If a given politician talks a socialist and votes like a socialist and writes laws like a socialist then he or she must surely be a socialist, with all due respect, of course, to the party to which they are registered.

    How in the world does NYC expect to enforce this bologna law?

    How sad that something so blatantly obviously harmful to half of all people, the women folk, could get codified in America.

    ------------------------------
    Jim Allen
    Store Owner/ Employee
    VIP Laundry
    Orange CA

    Store Owner/ EmployeeVIP LaundryVIP LaundryJimAllenVIP LaundryVIP Laundry
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: Regarding NYC Consumer Address Law

    Posted 10-07-2018 12:10
    Edited by Paulie B 10-07-2018 12:10
    Guys,

    Not only does this lnew law require customer's personal address, but the laundromat OWNER's address must be provided to the public!!!

    " @ 20-297.5 General provisions.

    a. Each licensee shall attach to all handcarts and pushcarts a label or tag that displays, in letters not less than two inches in height, such licensee's name, address and license number.

    b. Bills, tickets, cards, advertising or stationery issued or distributed by any licensee shall contain such licensee's name, address and license number."


    Even the NYPD has gotten into harassing shop owners.....Check out this UNBELIEVEABLE story about a Korean mat owner who has been totally screwed by the NYPD, and he did NOTHING WRONG, then Vote these leftists OUT OF OFFICE!!!

    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nypd-pummels-mom-and-pop-shops-nuisance-cases-article-1.2610492


    ------------------------------
    Paulie B
    Multiple Mat Owner since 1976
    New York City, NY
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: Regarding NYC Consumer Address Law

    Posted 10-07-2018 18:33
    Paulie, I read that article.  Disturbing to say the least.  One the one hand NYPD is, I'm sure, under a lot of pressure to eliminate crime.  On the other hand, they have some very heavy handed tactics, tactics which may run afoul of the constitutional protections we enjoy in America.

    ------------------------------
    Jim Allen
    Store Owner/ Employee
    VIP Laundry
    Orange CA

    Store Owner/ EmployeeVIP LaundryVIP LaundryJimAllenVIP LaundryVIP Laundry
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Regarding NYC Consumer Address Law

    Posted 10-08-2018 14:12

    20-297.5 General provisions.
    a. Each licensee shall attach to all handcarts and pushcarts a label or tag that displays, in
    letters not less than two inches in height, such licensee's name, address and license number.
    John H,  10-06-2018 16:00
    Wasn't there an objection to this last year and DCA decided not to include it?

    ------------------------------
    Steve Smoth
    Non-Industry
    new york NY
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: Regarding NYC Consumer Address Law

    Posted 10-08-2018 21:25
    Hi Steve,

    This portion of the laws were passed in 2016. I assume that individual objection after that would have little effect on an existing law. DCA decides which laws to enforce. Currently, the tag requirement is still included in the laws but is not being enforced. This type of things is very common. For example, Democrate party passes a law then later on the Republican party enforces it then one day they start to point finger at each other when questioned by the public. And vice versa.

    I haven't heard of any objection to this tag rule though. I only vaguely remember that this rule applied to industrial license only but I can be wrong as I can't find any evidence now after the law updates.

    However, I myself have called the director of DCA regarding the consumer address requirement and was only given the answer to how to be compliant. He avoided any discussion related to the objection of laws made by the laundromat owners. Initially the fine was $140 and the inspector usually was also confused about this requirement and had to call the supervisor for clarification. Now the fine has increased to $250 in spite of the objections from many laundromat owners.

    If you get a chance, please print out the attached form to request your customers to voice their opinions. We are preparing a petition to remove this requirement.

    Thanks,

    ------------------------------
    John H (John)
    Laundromat Owner
    NYC
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: Regarding NYC Consumer Address Law

    Posted 10-15-2018 21:35
    Steve and others,

    The situation is getting worse. We are getting less and less support from the New York Democrat politicians. My guess is that they all feel safe about their positions now as all the moderate Democrat candidates have been voted out in the primary election. And here's the bad news. I have just been informed that the first violation ticket about "Not having handcart labels" was issued to one laundromat. The fine amount was $500. God bless New York!

    20-297.5 General provisions.
    a. Each licensee shall attach to all handcarts and pushcarts a label or tag that displays, in
    letters not less than two inches in height, such licensee's name, address and license number.
    b. Bills, tickets, cards, advertising or stationery issued or distributed by any licensee shall
    contain such licensee's name, address and license number.
    c. Charges to laundry consumers shall state accurately and clearly the name and address of the
    consumer and computation of the laundry charge

    ------------------------------
    John H (John)
    Laundromat Owner
    NYC
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: Regarding NYC Consumer Address Law

    Posted 10-16-2018 17:43
    John,

    I'm so sorry that they are already ticketing mats for this ludicrous dictate.

    I agree with you 100%....there are no moderate democrats anymore. At least not in NYC.
    They are rabid, left wing socialists. I hope you can put together a strong enough coalition to vote them out, but I'm not holding my breath.

    It's hard enough competing in one of the most saturated laundromat markets in the country, but to have the city needlessly harass you for their own political desires is unconscionable.

    I was done when they came in and told me that they would ticket me if they ever find any graffiti on my roll down gates. How about ticketing the people who PUT the graffiti on my roll down gates? No! Because they hate businesspeople and we are easier targets for MONEY!

    ------------------------------
    Paulie B
    Multiple Mat Owner since 1976
    New York City, NY
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: Regarding NYC Consumer Address Law

    Posted 10-18-2018 02:49
    Hi Paul,

    Thanks for your reply! Been busy obtaining the signatures from the laundromat owners and their customers regarding these two provisions to present to the DCA director. Hopefully, we can get something done. I agree with you. I won't hold my breathe in a Democratic State. The Governor and Mayor are both from Democratic party. Ironically, we used to be able to get something done because the Governor and Mayor were not getting along. This year happens to be the year they broke the ice...It all started when Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez defeated Joe Crowley.

    Anyway, I will keep fighting till one day moving out of NY like you. :)

    Thanks again!

    ------------------------------
    John H (John)
    Laundromat Owner
    NYC
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: Regarding NYC Consumer Address Law

    Posted 10-18-2018 10:50
    Edited by Paulie B 10-18-2018 10:52
    John,

    Sounds like you guys are organized enough to make a difference. I hope so.

    To all the other NYC Mat owners on this BB, I urge you to contact John and join the fight.
    Don't let this far left City Hall walk all over you!

    And get everyone you can to VOTE THEM OUT!

    Wishing you, and everyone in your coalition, all the best

    ------------------------------
    Paulie B
    Multiple Mat Owner since 1976
    New York City, NY
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: Regarding NYC Consumer Address Law

    Posted 10 days ago
    Just a quick update:
    a. Each licensee shall attach to all handcarts and pushcarts a label or tag that displays, in
    letters not less than two inches in height, such licensee's name, address and license number.
    c. Charges to laundry consumers shall state accurately and clearly the name and address of the
    consumer and computation of the laundry charge.

    These two regulations are currently not being enforced. The name and address requirements may be changed to "name and phone number". The City Council will discuss about these.

    Meanwhile, there are two new regulations being enforced:

    1. An indoor sign is needed to state who to contact to request refunds, the address and the phone number. Each letter must be 2 inch high.
    2. Each letter of the "out of order" needs to be 2 inch high.

    Good luck, guys!

    ------------------------------
    John H (John)
    Laundromat Owner
    NYC
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: Regarding NYC Consumer Address Law

    Posted 10 days ago
    1. An indoor sign is needed to state who to contact to request refunds, the address and the phone number. Each letter must be 2 inch high.
    2. Each letter of the "out of order" needs to be 2 inch high.

    I just got hit with #1 in one of my mats by an overzealous DCA inspector

    I am still confused about the whol​e situation because my signs say NO REFUNDS so how am I going to have a sign that says "contact 'so and so' at this number for a refund"

    In all honesty a refund can't be given because they pay me to take their dirt away from their clothing.  The only logical way to refund would be for me to give them their money and and allow me to rub their clothes in my dirty water basin in the basement for about 30 minutes.  Its only fair that we each give back what we gave to each other.

    And as far as the drop off tickets displaying the customer's address.  I wonder if there is a workaround to this.  For example, I use a certain software for drop off tickets.  I'm sure I can tell the guys at customer service to automatically make the address for every ticket... say... my store address... apartment 9999.  and when the DCA comes and sees that there's an address they shouldnt really be able to give me a ticket.  And of course if they start rummaging through my receipts, well ... what can i say?  thats the address that the customer gave me.  what can i do?

    But I believe that the carts that need to be labelled are for Industial laundry licensees and not retail laundry licensees. but i could be wrong.






    ------------------------------
    MOHAMMED
    BROOKLYN, NY
    ------------------------------



  • 16.  RE: Regarding NYC Consumer Address Law

    Posted 10 days ago
    Edited by John H 10 days ago
    Hi Mohammed,

    These regulations are to protect consumers. Once they are out, it is very difficult to remove entirely. This sign about refund is to inform customes where to make the refund request. By the way, with this poster, the sign of "No Refund." will still be needed, Otherwise, the inspector will leave a ticket. The minimum is $375 but there's usually a settlement amount at $250. Since this is just one poster on the wall, we are not fighting back...

    About the customer address requirement on drop off receipts, they may replace it with customer phone number. As this regulation is not being enforced, wait for the next update from the city Council or  consumer affairs.

    The requirement of cart labels are for retail laundry locations as well. This is also not being enforced until further notice.

    With all said, the City Council or Department of consumer affairs have the authority to enforce them. Please get in contact with your district Council man, Senator, and etc to voice your concerns. This is the only effective way. There's also a special election for the City's public avocate in February. Make sure to vote the ones who support small businesses.

    ------------------------------
    John H (John)
    Laundromat Owner
    NYC
    ------------------------------



  • 17.  RE: Regarding NYC Consumer Address Law

    Posted 10 days ago
    So wait...
    I can be in compliance of the law by stating the following in a sign with 2 inch lettering:

    For refunds please contact:
    SO and SO
    Address
    Phone num
    NO REFUNDS

    So now I can have be in compliance with two mandatory signs all in one.
    How sad that something can be contradictory yet follow the letter of the law at the same time.



    ------------------------------
    MOHAMMED
    BROOKLYN, NY
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: Regarding NYC Consumer Address Law

    Posted 8 days ago
    Mohammed,
    Really, no refunds ever?  Your machines never malfunction?  How do you stay in business?

    ------------------------------
    Brian DeCoster
    Store Owner/ Employee
    Laundromania
    Iowa City IA
    ------------------------------



  • 19.  RE: Regarding NYC Consumer Address Law

    Posted 8 days ago
    No refunds. Ever.

    If a washer malfunctions, we rewash their clothing in another washer sometimes... even a bigger washer than they originally used (or split them across multiple washers of similar size).  We even provide soap and softener for them.  If a dryer malfunctions then we split their clothing into a couple of dryers to dry them faster and make sure they are satisfied.  We spread love... its the Brooklyn way.

    We make sure that they get their money's worth and more.  But we don't give them their money back especially after a malfunction.  We have to make sure we do right by our customer.  Its only after the awful feeling of a malfunction do they feel better by getting more than they originally asked for.

    And as far as staying in business, this year we are celebrating our 70th year anniversary in a hard knocks neighborhood in East New York Brooklyn.  Our family has owned and operated this location for 43 years...  So, I think we're doing something right.

    I don't know how things are done in Iowa, but in Brooklyn we try our best to do the right thing instead of giving the customer back their money.

    ------------------------------
    MOHAMMED
    BROOKLYN, NY
    ------------------------------