Open Forum

Subject: Water "conditioning vs. softening"

1.  Water "conditioning vs. softening"

Posted 12-17-2014 07:50
Anyone used the saltless conditioning system? If so, we're you happy with it? I don't currently use anything and we have really hard water. Considering options. Thanks. ------------------------------ Blaine Burgan Store Owner Laundromat Indianapolis IN ------------------------------


2.  RE: Water "conditioning vs. softening"

Posted 12-17-2014 09:10

Blaine,

A salt type water softner system uses Zeolite (which is inside a tank) to soften the water.  As your water passes through the tank and the bed of Zeolite, iron and calcium minerals are picked up by the Zeolite and the water leaves the tank with a substantial reduction in these minerals.  Over a period of days or weeks, the Zeolite becomes saturated with minerals and must be cleaned or it won't work effectively any longer.  Cleaning is done by backwashing a brine (salt and water) solution through the bed of Zeolite.  The brine rinses the iron and calcium minerals off the Zeolite and down the sewer making the Zeolite like brand new again.

Zeolite looks like a copper colored sand and it's very expensive to buy but it never wears out.

Other so-called water softner systems are always suspect.  I've never heard of one that actually works.  In order for water to become soft, iron and calcium minerals must be removed (not merely suspended).

Now you know everything I know about water softners.

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Larry Adamski
Store Owner
Muskegon Laundromat
Spring Lake MI
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3.  RE: Open Forum : Water "conditioning vs. softening"

Posted 01-13-2015 08:09
Larry, Thanks, but I am specifically looking at a satless system....conditioning, not softening. Please check out the " how it works" on the Easy Water website. http://www.youtube.com/embed/S7zB-YnJmdw?showinfo=0&autohide=1&autoplay=1&rel=0 ------------------------------ Blaine Burgan Store Owner Laundromat Indianapolis IN ------------------------------


4.  RE: Open Forum : Open Forum : Water "conditioning vs. softening"

Posted 01-13-2015 08:52

Blaine,

I viewed the youtube video but I'm suspicious of the claimed performance of the Easy Water system.  The video has some inaccuracies concerning a salt based softener so I wonder what else is accurate.  I'd want to see the results of an independent study that showed positive results from such a small, simple "water conditioner system".  Anybody can make a youtube video with fancy graphics claiming this or that but that doesn't prove a thing.

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Larry Adamski
Store Owner
Muskegon Laundromat
Spring Lake MI
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5.  RE: Water "conditioning vs. softening"

Posted 12-18-2014 13:48
Don't do it!

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Brian DeCoster
Store Owner
Laundromania
Iowa City IA
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6.  RE: Water "conditioning vs. softening"

Posted 12-18-2014 14:08

I have a store that has been using a conditioner for 9 years. It has worked for me. I think if your going to do this you need to check to see if it will work in your application. They only work upto a certain hardness of water(my hardness is 12 grains), and your water has to be relatively free of iron because that will short out the magnets. The company that I got mine from is superior water conditioners.

It is true that all the minerals are still in the water, but they are suspended. The way I look at it is if the minerals are suspended going through the heating process and don't cause hard water buildup it is doing its job. I was spending about $2000 a year when I changed it, and lugging 7-9 bags of salt per week. The two units cost me about $7000 so my pay back was 3.5 years. Everybody has a different opinion and different circumstances. I would certainly investigate before writing it off. 

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Jared Friesen
Store Owner
Wash & Dry
American Fls ID
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7.  RE: Water "conditioning vs. softening"

Posted 01-04-2015 13:20

Anyone else using a Flow-Tech device.  My goal is to keep my pipes, heaters and valves from building up with scale.

Info here: http://www.plumberschoicewater.com/product_detail?id=16#ad-image-0

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Paul Erb
Store Owner
The Laundry Spot, LLC
Austin TX
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8.  RE: Water "conditioning vs. softening"

Posted 01-04-2015 14:54

Paul,

It looks like snake-oil to me.

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Larry Adamski
Store Owner
Muskegon Laundromat
Spring Lake MI
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9.  RE: Water "conditioning vs. softening"

Posted 01-05-2015 11:52
Edited by DAVID CHAMLEE 01-05-2015 11:53

I have a Customer / Friend who had one.

Results?

Less money in wallet. No change in water.

He now has sets of "Filters" with which he is very pleased.

I forget the name of the units, but he reads these postings, so hopefully he will come up with the info.

Curt ....?

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DAVID CHAMLEE
Service Technnician since 1986
and sometimes Laundromat Owner
CCR
Santa Barbara, CA
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10.  RE: Water "conditioning vs. softening"

Posted 01-10-2015 01:46

I responded to this days ago but where it went I have no idea.

Totally dissolved solids are exactly that and do not "filter" out. The things that use salt or flush out deposits just do not make sence when you are using the volume of water a Laundromat does. However you can suspend deposits so they do not build up in your equipment. And I do not mean put an electromagnet on your pipes.

I have very hard water supplying 3 Paloma instant on water heaters (199,000 BTU each). I used to have a serious problem with buildup so I tried a unit made by a company in Utah called NUVO H20. I installed their largest "softner" one before each heater with good results. It installs like and looks like a filter but I have a gauge before and after each one and have not noticed a loss in pressure as you would with a clogged  filter. They have been there four years now and my heaters work just fine.

They call them "softeners". While my water is less hard it is still hard water.

They use citric acid to suspend deposits so they don't stick to things. I have had customers tell me that their whites come out whiter at my place than the other places in town. But in all fairness this may be due to the fact that there is no iron in the plumbing anywhere.

Before installing them my heaters would plug up in one year.

All I know is they work for me.


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Curt Harrington
Store Owner
Ojai CA
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11.  RE: Water "conditioning vs. softening"

Posted 01-11-2015 11:12
The water supply around the country varies with respect to hardness and PH. In the West, much of our water supply is hard. In many commercial water heating applications, softening the water with a traditional type softener is cost prohibitive. Many restaurants, apartments and laundries use a filter system by Aqua Pure. This SS-12 stainless steel cadaster used with the AP420 cartridges will stop the scale from dropping out in your boiler heat exchanger and pipes. When you heat water, you make scale. The key is to keep the dissolved solids moving and not sticking. The SS-12 will pass roughly 90 GPM. The AP420 cartridges have the time released scale inhibitor inside. This is a less expensive alternative than a traditional water softener and laundry owners can simply change the cartridges every year to maintain the scale free performance. ------------------------------ Kevin Trent Store Owner La Playa Laundry Yorba Linda CA ------------------------------


12.  RE: Water "conditioning vs. softening"

Posted 01-12-2015 13:04

Kevin,

Where did you get your information on the Aqua pure SS12 with the AP420 cartridges. I would like to find out more about it.

Thanks,

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Jared Friesen
Store Owner
Wash & Dry
American Fls ID
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13.  RE: Open Forum : Water "conditioning vs. softening"

Posted 01-12-2015 17:50
Edited by Jamie Sewell 01-12-2015 17:51

Jared,

You can find information on-line by searching Aqua Pure or the model numbers above.  Grainger can sell these items to you.  The price is better through a plumbing wholesaler if you have a connection.  It is important that you get the AP420 Cartridges.  They filter down to 5 microns and have the time released blended phosphate pellets inside to inhibit the scale.  This is a food byproduct that is safe for drinking water and in fact used by some Cities to protect the older cast iron main pipes.  The benefit for us is the scale free performance.  I'm near Anaheim, CA.  This City has a terrible problem with hard water.  Every apartment building and hotel in the area is protected with a blended phosphate product dispensed from a pot feeder.  In laundries we use the Aqua Pure filter with the same type of scale inhibitor inside the disposable cartridges.

Best,

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Kevin Trent
Store Owner
La Playa Laundry
Yorba Linda CA
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14.  RE: Open Forum : Open Forum : Water "conditioning vs. softening"

Posted 01-12-2015 23:57

Kevin,

I looked around on the internet and called a number of places specifically about the SS12 with the ap420 cartridges. A couple of questions that I have not been able to find an answer is 1. I have 12 -14 grain hard water and go through between 100,000 to 150,000 gallons of water a month how long should I expect the filters to last, considering that refiltering the ss12 runs about $500 a shot. If it is 1 time per year great every 3 months then that would be expensive considering I am spending $1100 per year in salt now. 2. Are you using the filter system only in front of the water heating system or for all of the water hot and cold?
3. How long does the water stay treated for example if it stays in the holding tank 2 days and is run back through the water heating system is it still ok?  These are the three questions I have not been able to find an answer for, and maybe you don't know either, but based on your experience I would be interested in your thoughts.

Thanks,
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Jared Friesen
Store Owner
Wash & Dry
American Fls ID
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15.  RE: Open Forum : Open Forum : Open Forum : Water "conditioning vs. softening"

Posted 01-14-2015 10:03
Jared, Most business change the filters approximately once a year in a high volume application. The cartridges have time released blended phosphate material inside in the form of pellets. When you shake them you can hear the pellets. When you stop hearing the material inside when you shake the cartridges, it's time to change the cartridges. This is roughly a year depending on the volume of water treated. The scale inhibitor stays active in the water heater and tank until it gets drawn out. We always install these filters with a bypass and valves so that you can check or service the filter without an interruption in your business. Best, ------------------------------ Kevin Trent Store Owner La Playa Laundry Yorba Linda CA ------------------------------